SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey guys, it's John McElhost of Run and Vegas. We're talking local sports, business, real estate. If you guys would like, subscribe, follow us on Runin' Vegas podcast, okay?

unknown 0:24

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Uh Special Guest, Caitlin Duffy in the house. Hey, thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for being on.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Of course. Love this.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

So, what have you been up for the last nine months? We haven't seen you in the pod.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I know, I know. I've been busy in such a good way. Uh, I feel like I have 15 jobs at the moment, which is awesome. Obviously, mortgage lending, VA loans, VA knowledge is like my main gig, 80% of what I do. Um, but I've been pulled in some other directions. It's just it's fun. I've been doing the whole public speaking gig, which is really cool. And then my auntie duties, which I realize like I roll my eyes as I say this. I love being an aunt, and I would like drop anything to like go and hang out with my nephews. So, like all of a sudden I'm like following 12U football, like it's my life. Like it's like the Dallas Cowboys. I'm like following his everything, and then baseball season, and you know, the 13-year-old is super into it. So, like I used to always roll my eyes at like moms when they would only talk about their kids, and now my nephews are in sports, and I'm like, this is my entire life, like this is everything I do. So I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I get it. I have I have nephews, and I'm the same way. It's like whatever they're doing, I just think it's adorable. So they're just oh like attacking me all the time. Yes, I love it. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

It's it's so much fun. It's this is the reason I moved to Vegas, and I enjoyed it when they were little, but now that they're like the preteen teenagers, the more they dislike their parents, the more they like me. I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it. I'm the definitely the cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

And even some of I can see that though.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Even some of like my besties' teenagers are like they'll like text me stuff. They're like, Don't tell my mom, but and I just I love it so much. And I have like this like there's certain things I'm like, I would never tell her that. And there's certain things I'll say, like, no, I won't, but also, hey, did you know? Don't tell her I told you.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

So it's fun, I love it. It's just I'm having a really good year.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

That's cool. Yeah, yeah, it's fun to enjoy these. It's funny how life changes, but it's it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I know. If you had asked me 10 years ago if I would have enjoyed hanging out with 12 and 13 year olds, I would have said, absolutely not. And now they're like my favorite people ever.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

So I love it.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Well, since you you haven't been on nine months, but I know you had a big public speaking event. Seems like this is a super passion of yours here in the future. So I want to hear about how it went.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

What you learned, what were the wins, because I know you're excited about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yes. So I have never been afraid of a stage. I I don't get stage fright. I love public speaking. I love being in front of people. What's funny is I actually don't do well in like the small networking events. Like if you put me to a table at four people and I have to like give my elevator speech and like talk to people, I need tequila. Um, but get me on a stage in front of a thousand people, and it's my most comfortable I've ever been. I love it. I should have been an actress or theater or something. So I kind of fell into it. I was telling some friends a very um heartfelt military story, and one of them said, You have to tell this story publicly. And so I hired a speech coach and worked on it and you know, figured it all out. And I have now tell told that story five times publicly on stage at this point. And I have four more gigs coming up that are similar. And it's all about just like perseverance and um most of it's military related. So I've spoken to a lot, like I've spoken to like women in leadership of Metro and EMS and fire, and just uh how to overcome you know being a woman in a man's world and leadership in um when you're being pushed the hardest. So it's one of those, like I would like bucket list. I want to do a TED talk for sure. That is my bucket list, but I'm also not gonna push it. I kind of want to see if that's what the universe wants for me and just see what falls in my lap. So I'm not gonna hire an agent or anything like that, but things are just kind of coming into play as life goes on. And I I mean, I have one a quarter every for the next six quarters.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

That's phenomenal. Yeah. How is it to be like obviously you have to be pretty vulnerable to reveal your story? Was that hard the first time you did it, or was it just like I meant to tell the story?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

I think the first time, I think it was very difficult to tell it in front of people that I knew. Is that weird? It when I was in front of my friends, and then when my mom heard some of it for the first time, like I couldn't keep it together, she couldn't keep it together, I couldn't keep it together. It was a mess. So in front of people that I know in a small setting, it was very vulnerable. And I I couldn't even like I couldn't even get words out, like talk about ugly crying, I couldn't figure it out. Um, but on stage in front of strangers, all of a sudden I almost like kind of become the persona of like they need to hear this. And the more vulnerable you are, and the more detailed you are in even like the worst part of you. Like I have explained, like I have told a stage of a thousand people the worst thing I've ever done in my entire life. And afterwards, the impact is ten times what it would have been if I had held that piece back.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Interesting. Are we telling them on the pot? No.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

I'm not wearing waterproof mascara. So yeah, so it's just it's very the vulnerable is good. That is the part that people connect with because everybody, not that like misery loves company, but everybody wants to know that somebody else has struggled with something similar.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

So if you come on this pod every day and you're like, business is great, everything's fantastic, blah, blah, blah. People aren't gonna connect. If you come on and be like, I'm having the worst second quarter I've ever had, business is hard right now, and buyers are non-existent, and I'm struggling, and I'm trying to figure out what's happening, people are gonna watch that because they're like, all right, cool, what are you gonna do?

Speech Coaching And The Power Of Silence

SPEAKER_00 6:21

That's what I like about you. You're very authentic and you and it shows like with your social media brand and you've done a really good job with it. I'm curious though, my ADHD's running here though. What was the like the speech uh speech coach? What was like the couple things you got out of that that you because it seems like you're a natural you speak well.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Thank you. What were a couple of things that just the the things that we worked on the most? Um, Amy is her name, she's amazing. She's here in Las Vegas. If you ever want speech training, she's fantastic. She helped me mostly with my filler words. She said, silence is better than anything. So even just reading my speech, I said my speech or my script multiple times uh uh digitally. And every single time she'd go and she goes, delete you said and 47 times, you said um 15 times. And I'm okay typically with the filler words, like I don't say um all the time, but I have my own filler words, I'll say, Well, so she's like, Well, why did you say those two words? Cut it all out. They only want to hear the facts. Don't say, well, however, just be silent for a second and say on July 4th. You don't need to, you don't need the buildup, you don't need all of the filler. So that was a huge one. So whenever I'm writing scripts or reading scripts or listening to people, I've become the worst critic ever, ever since coaching with her. Now I can't watch any podcasts or any stages or anything without counting the ums and counting the sows and be like, oh, I figured out what their filler word was. Theirs is however. They say however every fourth line, it's because they're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

And that's why scripts are so important, especially in real estate. And it's funny you said that because I didn't have a speech coach or anything, but watching, I always I try to watch all of our pods, and that was one of the biggest things because even just you and I talking, like I want to affirm you all the time. It's just a natural thing when you and I are talking, but I have to be silent because when you're talking and you see it on the pod, you're John going, Yep, great, um, whatever it is, right? Yes, it it's annoying.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

As salespeople people, it is very difficult for us to be silent. I have noticed that on, you know, I do most of my stuff on the phone. So I put my phone on speaker and I usually set it on my desk because it gives me like my full attention. And I'll be listening, and I always tell my buyers, like, all right, give me the whole story, every detail, the whole thing, just like give everything that's going on right now. You don't hold anything back. I want to know all the details. And I'll just let them talk. I'll be like, before and this is before a pre-approval, this is like the pre-qualification. And I let them talk, and I realized that I used to say stuff like, Oh, great, cool, perfect. Oh, and I was just trying to be positive the whole time to like not, and I sometimes I'd say, Oh, that's awesome, right after they said, Well, then I had a bankruptcy three years ago. And I was like, That's not like, but it was just my brain trying to fill in the silences.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

You've all done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

As soon as I realized I just needed to shut up, I got more out of the buyers because they would be silent for a second, and then I would be silent for a second, and they call that like an awkward silence. It's only awkward if you make it.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

If you just sit nicely and say nothing, they will keep telling you more things. Maybe that's what therapists do. I don't know. If I just stay silent, then all of a sudden I'll get out. Well, what we really want is in two years, and then I get like the bigger picture and I can actually help them.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

So but it's still people, it's hard. Like you want to jump in.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

I want to repeat and approve, but yeah, first one speaks, loses, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

And there's so many times for you, you've had this moment where you just sit there, you shut up, and they close themselves on the deal. Yeah, it's the most amazing thing. And there's you didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

You didn't say anything. Yeah, a lot of times I will say nothing, and they'll be like, Yeah, so I really think that maybe next month is the best time to buy. Should I get pre-approved now? I'm like, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

I said no words. I don't have to sell you. You told your story, you put the pieces together, and yes, we should get pre-approved.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Sell themselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah, exactly. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

So, well, congrats on all your uh speak speaking here in the future. Excited for you.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

I'm excited.

Real Estate Uncertainty And Living Now

SPEAKER_00 10:25

We'll get a little bit of real estate. It's kind of interesting. I was thinking about coming on this pod. I feel like you're like the last person I've kind of taught real estate on this pod.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And the the premise of this show was real estate. We've kind of gone away from it, doing more sports, entrepreneurs. You're obviously an entrepreneur, but um, yeah, it's we've gone away from real estate, and there's a lot going on in the real estate world right now. So I want to take this time because you're an expert at what you do in lending, and kind of give what you're seeing out there, any predictions you have, what you would recommend to buyers right now, so we can help some folks out.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah. The market is the weirdest it's I want to say the weirdest it's ever been, but I've been saying that every three months for like three years. It is very unpredictable. And it has been since 2023. We everything we hear, it does the opposite. And I have two or three experts that I follow regularly, and they used to always say kind of the same thing. Like they were, you know, it's like listening to three coaches. They're kind of gonna say the same thing with you know a different impact. But for the last couple years and especially the last six months, everything they're saying is opposite of each other. So you it's just a crystal ball at this point. We have no idea. We don't know what's going on with the Fed, which is not a direct correlation to mortgage lending, but also it does kind of fall in line historically. The 10-year treasury is a mess, and it's just not, it's nothing's happening the way that anybody thought it was gonna happen. So I don't know, like I don't even know how to answer your question. So for me that's been studying the market for 10 years, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I love it. You're honest.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I don't know. That's my I that's my authority. And anybody that says that they know, they're bullshitting you. They are lying. Nobody knows.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Nobody can, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, I can tell you what I think is gonna happen in the treasury, and I can tell you what I think might happen in um the world that might affect mortgage rates, but I don't know what's actually gonna happen with like the rates or the inventory. I mean, the inventory is insane right now.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It's interesting, it's actually going down.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yes. So I think that everybody's trying to predict the market. Nobody's trying to live in the now. Like nobody's trying to live like, what should I do today? Everyone's trying to say, like buyers and sellers and realtors are saying, well, what's gonna happen in three months? Well, what's gonna happen in three months? And they're making their decision based on a crystal ball of what's gonna happen in three months. Instead of just react instead of just doing right now what's good for them. So because we all thought rates were gonna go down and we had that like 48-hour real estate boom in January where they did go down and our market exploded. It was great, which is why we all had a great first quarter. You had a good first quarter? Yes. Yes, because we had like this blip of like optimism in January, and then everything boomed. Well, then, you know, politics happened and wars happen, and you know, whether whether it's Ukraine or Iran or whatever, something happened, and everybody thought, oh, well, in three months, something bad's gonna happen. So everybody tightened up again. The sellers tightened up, they won't negotiate. Sellers pulled their houses off the market for absolutely no reason, just because they thought it was good. So inventory's down, and buyers were like, Well, I thought it was a good time to buy, but I changed my mind. And everybody just kind of like froze thinking of what's gonna happen in three months. Not I should buy a house now because I need a house. So it's just it's hard because everybody's trying to predict it instead of just living in the now.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Which is frustrating. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, it is frustrating for us, but it you and I have seen it so many times. Pandemic that happened for a while, and then it blew up, and we saw with the tariffs last year. And yeah, it's an interesting time. So if things work themselves out, maybe we can still have a good second half of the year. But what I would say, would you say it's still a good time to buy long-term?

Starter Homes Versus Investor Mindset

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Oh, absolutely. 100%. And this is my I actually have a video I recorded this morning that I'm going to post, and I have like a five segment uh recording. But the the biggest problem is everybody's trying to be an expert real estate investor. So if you are buying your third, fourth, fifth house or you're doing a DSCR for an investment and you are like in the game, like you've owned your starter home and you're moving on. Cool, play the market. Like I get I play the market as an investor. I like I want to buy my sixth house right now, and I'm trying to see, you know, I'm playing it, right? The problem is that these young gen Z families and couples and individuals are trying to play the market as if they're investors when really they're they're just first-time home buyers. And the biggest thing that they need to realize is stop acting like an investor. And like your first starter, your first home, your starter home, is a tool. It is a way to get in the game, build equity, build wealth, sell, and then buy the next home. So it doesn't matter. The first home you buy shouldn't matter. Like it's just to get in the game. It's like playing double dough. You just gotta jump in. Right? If you want to be an expert and play the market, sure, on your fifth, sixth house, do that. Your first or second house, just if that's the home for you and you can afford the payment, buy it. That is it.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Because that's it.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

If you can if you can afford it and that's the house you like, buy it. Because in five, ten, fifteen years, you're gonna have more equity than you ever could have saved on your own.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

And I'd rather pay seven percent than a hundred percent. Like I'm not gonna pay a landlord ever again.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

So well, it's interesting. The rental market is I've never seen the rental market as slow as it is today.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Is this I don't know anything about that?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I think it's worse than resale. It's crazy. Oh, but it is interesting. Because even we're talking rates, right? I mean, they got as high as eight and they're a little well under six and a half right now, give or take.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

And lower sixes, yeah, lower sixes.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

But I've never seen that and last year, like the median sales price home, it seems like they're almost sitting longer, or buyers are taking longer than the higher price ranges, which I've never seen fly off the market in my career. So it's it is interesting because I think it's a lot of folks just going out, they don't want to everybody saying the market's bad and they're not making moves because they don't want maybe seems silly in front of their family or friends or whatever. I don't know. But it does make a lot of sense to be getting it out there right now because you can get some great deals. If sellers have their home on the market right now, they're motivated.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Correct. Yes. So there's because the inventory is not that high, but the inventory to buy's ratio is high. We keep saying this is a buyer's market with no buyers. Like the you could get whatever you want. The contracts that come across my desk. I have never seen so many concessions. They're going under sales price with all the closing costs and buying the points down. It's it's crazy because right, it is a buyer's market. There just aren't any buyers to buy any of the homes. Um, I just feel like there's so many people trying to play, like I said, like play the game. Like the sellers that are selling, they need to sell. So if you want to, if I could afford to buy right now in my situation as a primary, a million times I would buy right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

I agree. You can get some really good deals out there that I think long-term are gonna be because these things are gonna get resolved. Again, we don't know the crystal ball. It could be a month, it could be a year from now, whatever, but they're gonna get resolved eventually.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Well, and if you I mean, I've I've been in the industry since 2013, so not forever, but from 13 until now, we went from 13 to 17 was actually pretty even, at least where I was I was right outside of a military base at Fort Bragg, so it was pretty even. 19, it became terrible because rates got to 4.25%. And I laughed thinking about that because I remember rates went over four, and buyers were like, this is ridiculous, we're never gonna buy at that rate. Um, and so it became more of a seller's market, and then COVID happened. So 19 like went up and then 20, you know. So I've seen the flip-flop a couple times. So in my head, I'm like, just wait, stick around, just wait it out. If you have to sell, sell, if you have to buy, buy. In three years, it's gonna flip. So it'll the only the only person that it sucks for is the person that had to buy high and then sell low. But that's just timing. Like, yeah, jobs happen, change, you know, life happens, you have more kids, your kids move out, and that's that's just the market.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, and if you're looking long term to purchase makes a lot of sense. And also, if you bought in Vegas in the last 10 years, you're doing regardless. It's funny how people forget that because they most of the sellers right now they have a actually a lot of equity. Yeah, and they're fighting over maybe$20,000,$40,000, but they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yes.

HELOCs As A Practical Safety Net

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I'm my So there is actually a lot of opportunity on both sides.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yes. I have a I've had more HELOCs in the last eight to nine months than I've ever had. So a HELOC is a home equity line of credit, and I'm marketing more to the like HELOCs are great. Yeah, the like East. Everybody should have ELF number home. Yeah, the E the East Side right now, I'm marketing to them that market because most of them, their average purchase date was like 2013. These are this is not Summerlin where lots of people bought in like 2018 to 22. These are people that have bought 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago, and they're in their home, but they probably have kids going to college and credit card debt and all that. My HELOCs are out of control because they bought their home for 200. It's now worth seven. They don't want to sell, they're in their home. Like that's their that that is their third home. It's their retirement. But they need to do all of the things that life needs. And so people are pulling equity out of their house, not dangerously, not like 2007, 2008, because we have a lot more um regulation and control over. We're not letting people overspend. But the like HELOCs are out of control right now because people have so much equity, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

I recommend it. Yeah, if you're interested in HELOC, hit Caitlin up because I even if you don't need it, go get them because you don't have to use the equity out of your home. It's just if you have a rainy day, which you never know, HELOCs are phenomenal versus putting it on a credit card when things go bad.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Correct, yes. Yeah, if you're gonna pay 23% on your credit card, let's say your um sewer goes out or you need a new HVAC, we're about to pay that time, right? HVAC costs like what,$13,000,$15,000. You don't want to put that on a credit card and slowly pay it off at 23% interest rate. If you already had a HELOC for$80,000 and it was just sitting, you're not using it, it's not spending, but the interest rate's 9% for what you use. Wouldn't it be great to pull that$15 out, spend it, only pay 9%, try and pay it back as fast as possible, and then it's sitting there ready for you to use. Like I don't think people realize it's like a non-usable credit card that just sits there. If you have the equity, everybody should have that. It's it's just a great emergency fund where you're not paying the bank's interest rates.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

For sure. And worst case scenario, you can't pay it off. When you go to sell the house, you pay it off when you go to sell. So it's not like a credit card where you get in this mode of no, it's it's a phenomenal uh tool, financial tool.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, it's a great tool.

Kayaking Hoover Dam To Willow Beach

SPEAKER_00 21:32

So I'm glad you brought that up. All right, let's have a little fun though. But I haven't got you for another eight minutes. Okay. I thought you went on the Gold Spike hike, uh checking you out on social media, getting ready for this pod. But apparently you didn't go on the hike. I did not. So tell me the story.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Okay, so this is the second time I've done this, and it's so much fun. Okay, so I like outdoor stuff, and living in Las Vegas, we have access to so much outdoor activity. Don't even realize, like, we do like snowboarding at Lee Canyon, we do red rock, we do Lake Mead, Willow Beach hidden spots on the Colorado River. So yesterday I went out with um Adventure Child is the name of the company, so that's my plug, Adventure Child Lenny. And Lenny is a friend of mine for like since I moved to Vegas. They are one of the only maybe six companies that have licenses with Lake Mead um recreation, like with the um like the back end of it. So what we did is there was a group of just friends. It wasn't any strangers, it wasn't a tourist thing, it was just a bunch of bus buddies. We met at uh uh Hoover Dam, like at the boulder station that's right there, and at 5 a.m., it was an early morning, and we dropped in kayaks at Hoover Dam, which you have to have a license to do. Even if you go in at Willow Beach or anything like that, you can't kayak that high, you can't boat that high, you have to have a license to go close to the dam. So we got to drop in at the dam. There was 10 of us, and we kayaked from Hoover Dam all the way to Willow Beach, which is 12 miles. 12 miles if you kayak directly.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

We're with the current though, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So you're with the current, but it's not what you think. Like in my head, I'm like, if you just like sat there and didn't do anything, you'd eventually make it. You wouldn't. Like it's so weird. The current flows under like almost like a riptide, and the top either goes backwards, like it almost works in a circle. So on kaya, you have to paddle hard. Yeah. I am very sore today. Like my trap, my traps, and my delta.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I've got I did it, gosh, I think uh our our team did it like five years ago, and it was it's a workout because you're like, you don't want to get left behind and you're going.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah, like I'm like I'm talking like I am kayaking hard. I I I'm a gym girl, like I work out, but I'm kayaking hard for nine miles. I kayaked. Plus, we stopped like five or six times, but four of the times we hiked up. So we did um yeah, we went yeah, we went all the way to all of the hot springs. So we did Boy Scout hot springs, we did Memorial Hot Springs, we did Arizona hot springs, and we saw one of the times was like an hour and we hiked like three miles up and three miles back. So we went to every single hot spring along the entire Colorado River on both the Nevada and Arizona side, and we went back and forth, and then finally we hit um Emerald Canyon and then Emerald Cave and then down to Willow Beach. So it was a 13-hour day of nonstop. It was so much fun, it's so pretty. It's the second time I've done it, and it's just I remember yesterday it was probably mid morning, and we were kayaking through. And some of the times you're all together and you're like chatting and BSing and stuff, and then some of the times everyone's just silent. And I had a minute of like like a meditation where I'm like, we're just in this canyon and it's probably 200 feet up, and the water is crystal emerald, basically, and it's so pretty. And I just remember thinking, there are people in the world that will never see something as beautiful as this. I it's just it's in it's there are just no words. It was breathtaking for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, I love it in there. Have you actually ever done the hike? I I mean, not what you did going up, but in the start.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I've done the Arizona hot springs, so from the Arizona side down. I have never done the Nevada side where I came down to Gold Spider.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

That's tough. You'll be fine. But our team and I we did this one time, and we got to the bottom, and Mr. George sprained his foot at the bottom and then had to make his way back up. It took us over four hours.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

I'll say this that we went to town, it was the best beers and chicken wings I've ever had in my life. This man refused to give up. But yeah, usually, I'm trying to remember, I think it takes about 90 minutes to get uh down one way. And then yeah, but it was but it's easy to get down, it's going up, which is hard. Right. We saw a kayak group and we're like, maybe we go see the kayak. It's like I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

We all just oh no for four hours.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, thank God we have supplies. So if you ever do Gold Spike, it's really cool. Bring water, bring snacks, so much water. It's yeah, it's not because I've back in the day I used to never bring anything hike all the time. And it's there's something about, and like you said, it's gorgeous in there, yeah, but it's a little scary because the heat gets trapped in there. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

It gets like very humid, definitely. You get dehydrated very quickly. You get dehydrated quickly, exactly. Yeah, there was when we hit, I want to say it was Boy Scout hot springs that we hit, and we went up, and it's one of those you have to use the rope and you have to climb up waterfalls, and there's 10 of us, so we're going climbing up and like trying to help each other. And it was I that's probably my favorite part is like climbing up the waterfalls. I love that. You go up, and we got maybe like a mile in, and we saw other people coming towards us, and we're like, Oh, how much further? And they're like, Oh no, we parked, and we were in two miles, and we're like, Oh, we're in a mile, but we came from the water, so it's almost like we're meeting up. And they had said they were like, Well, it's easy coming down. I was like, Well, what we just did was not easy, so be prepared because when you hit the water and you decide you want to go home, climbing up those water, you'd think going down the waterfalls would be it is scarier because you're like repelling.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah. Yeah, I don't like to repel either. I love oh, I love heights.

unknown 27:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Do look. You won't go skydiving with me?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Oh, I've skydived before.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

But you're okay, so you're not that scared of heights.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Well, yeah, I ideally I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Do you want to go repelling off the stratosphere?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Uh, not really.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Will you go repelling off the stratosphere? Come on, George.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Maybe.

unknown 27:51

Yeah, we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

That's a challenge. That is my next, that's my second quarter challenge to get John and George to go repelling off the stratosphere.

Cowboys Takes And Paying Star Players

SPEAKER_00 27:58

I would hate it, but you're gonna love it. Alright, let's uh let's talk a little football. Alright, I know we got some time. We have a minute. But a lot has happened to the Dallas Cowboys in the last since we have not seen so how do we feel about the Michael Parsons trade?

SPEAKER_02 28:14

I would be a ruthless owner if I was an NFL owner.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Oh, so you were for it.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah. I oh, if you want to act like a diva and you want more money, go somewhere else. I think that Mike, like his position, so like a defensive end or even a running back, like the whole Zeke thing, I loved him. I have his jersey. I love Thugo Elliott. Fucking trade him. Sorry. Um I don't know what to tell you. I think that those positions, they peak at a certain age, they peak at a certain year. So if you're gonna be a defensive end or a running back. Yeah, I want you as I want you with the best of the best. I'm gonna draft you. I'm gonna keep you for four years. I'm gonna get the best out of you. If you don't get us a Super Bowl, when your rookie contract is up and you want more money, let somebody else pay them some more money. I'm gonna go draft to the next best thing. You're not gonna peak at 27, bro. Like it's not that is life. And I realize I'm a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, I don't have everybody was crying about it, so I thought it was gonna be a whole different take.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

No, absolutely I have zero empathy for millionaires that are crying about moving.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

The um the don't tell our buyers that go, okay?

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Well, so here's the thing. I have military buyers that move every three years. They have to move their family, they have to change their kids' sports programs, they have to change their kids' schools, they have to go through everything that these browdy NFL players have to. Well, I have to move in my family. Yeah, so do the military. Take off four zeros off your paycheck. They still do it every three years. You could do it, it's fine. Again, it's probably stressful, but I treat it more like fantasy football. They're not real people to me. I get rid of it. I get rid of them as soon as they want their big contract, let him go.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

That defense was so bad, I don't think it would have mattered either way. I do believe you keep your best players, but it sounds like there's a lot of office screen things going on.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

If they are a leadership role, doesn't sound like he was. Correct. If you if you off the field are making an impact on the team, if you are great in the locker room and you're great at leadership and you're great at like the fitness stuff and you're great at like the mentoring the young guys, and you're good at your job, great, keep them and pay them. If you're just good at your job and you don't have any of the other things, we'll draft somebody new. Like if you're just if you're just good at the game, it's a game that seven-year-olds play. If you're just the best at that, let somebody else pay you. I want you to be the best at that and be the best man and husband and father and mentor and leader and all of the all of the other things. Those people we should pay and keep. Because that's who's gonna train our next generation of cowboys. And I also think that cowboys fans collectively need a lot of therapy.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

So yes, yes, you guys are fun. Or draft Ohio State Caleb Downs.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

I love Ohio State. Best player in the draft hand down. I'm not saying it's our year because I'm sure that in January and December, I'm gonna be eating my words and I'll be crying. Um, January is the most depressing month for a Cowboys fan for sure. But best player in the draft, and we did all defense. I all I want is good football. I want my ball to be really, really good Cowboys football. And then come January, I am used to being disappointed. It's been 20 years, and I'm I will be okay. That is what I focus on on Morgan's life.

Quick Wrap And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_00 31:26

That's just football. It's just football. So we're gonna wrap this up. Thank you, Caitlin, for being on. Of course. Guys looking for HELOC Lone, Caitlin, Drew Gal, guys from Vegas, take care of yourselves today.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Bye.